The Health Pulse

[MUSIC PLAYING] SAL GILL: Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Electrifying AI. Our mission is to provide a venue for clean energy enthusiasts to gain up-to-date insights on the latest developments taking shape in the electricity sector. Along the way, we'll help demystify the connection between the greatest machine ever built, the electric grid, and the greatest enabler of our time, data analytics.

To help us do that, we'll have a series of guests this season who hold a variety of different roles throughout the electricity industry. For today's episode, we are honored to be joined by an energy expert who brings with her a wealth of unique life and professional experiences that will prove invaluable as our industry navigates the ongoing energy transition.

Dawn James is the US director of sustainability and environmental services at Microsoft, but her title doesn't even begin to tell you the full story of the expertise she brings to her role. She's a violinist, a geoscientist, a mom, and a technology solution professional. And she could teach us all about Houston, her time working at Halliburton, or even how fluvial sedimentology works. And I've got to ask her if I said that right. I've even heard her say that she's previously worked in construction as well. Dawn, it is such a pleasure to welcome you to Electrifying AI.

DAWN JAMES: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

SAL GILL: Awesome. So I've offered our listeners and viewers a snapshot of who you are. How would you describe yourself and your role within the industry?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, so I mean, I think that you did a great job in describing what it is that I do and some of the background that I have. But first and foremost, I really think of myself as a systems thinker, as a systems leader, really looking at and recognizing patterns and the intersection of different systems. I'm also a geoscientist, is what you've mentioned.

I have training and education in geoscience, master's and bachelor's degree in geology, geoscience. And because of the way that I was trained and the education that I received, I have a background in not just Earth systems but a methodology for critical thinking that involves the scientific method and the uniqueness of geosystems in the way that I learned how to think through problems and identify solutions, right?

So I bring that to bear. Whenever I solve a problem, I go back to my roots on how to exercise critical thinking. And in this stage of digital transformation, industry 4.0, all of these type of ways of thinking comes to bear, right? So when you start talking about my career and the 25 years that I spent in various industries,

I think of my-- the role that I play as a portfolio career, where I'm bringing together the flexibility of a digital worker, but also this loyalty to an ideal, right? And so what I mean by that is that I am an Earth scientist first, but everything on top of that is-- so I'm loyal to the systems thinking around Earth scientists, but I have the flexibility of the multiple industries that I've worked in and to this digital culture that elucidates this flexibility.

SAL GILL: Very interesting.

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, and so the way that I also like to think about this, too, is around-- the role that I have at Microsoft is really around innovation and culture, so this is innovation culture that is focused on delivering a societal service, right? So that's the way I think about what I do around systems, applying a portfolio career to what it is that I do, and then, in addition, this culture of innovation and delivering a service to society. That's the way I think about what I do.

SAL GILL: Wow. That sounds all very, very interesting. So your resume is remarkable. How does your background as a geologist shape what you do at a tech company like Microsoft, and maybe how you approach even the energy transition our country and the world is experiencing these days?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, I mean, that's a big question, right? So the way that I think about my role at a tech company, like I mentioned, as a systems leader-- and a systems leader with a purview for societal change, right? Because that's what we're talking about. So as I mentioned, it was my training as a geoscientist to think of macrosystems, right?

So think of macrosystems in terms of cycles and patterns and points of inflections. So when I think about geoscience and how I learned about thinking of large-scale systems and processes that move over millions of years, then you have to think of the boundary conditions within which these things operate.

So when we think of Earth systems, we think of the major drivers for Earth systems, the sun, planetary alignment, the oceans, right? These are the major systems that impact the planet that we live on, right? So then, in that training, we deal with large timescales. We deal with the macroscopic aspects of Earth's systems. But then, at the same time, I spent three years counting sand grains in a river system, literally, sand grains and pebbles, pebble-size sand grains.

SAL GILL: Wow. Wow.

DAWN JAMES: And I spent a long time doing that. And I found it incredibly interesting, the amount of information that you can get from a pile of sand as far as provenance and history of the Earth, right? So those macrosystems are also seen in a grain of sand, right? So being able to think both macroscopically and microscopically is one of the things that I apply, right?

And that is, again, leading us to the connections piece, those points of inflections and data, right? So as a geoscientist, I am data driven, and I'm trained to find the connections between the microscopic and being able to understand it from a macroscopic systems level, right? So that's the way I've been trained.

And so when we start thinking about energy transition, we start thinking about economic systems, business systems, business-- geopolitical policy, government, health crisis, climate-- these are all very macroscopic societal issues. And so I approach it from the same critical-thinking, problem-solving methodology that I learned to translate geoscience problems starting early, following the science.

SAL GILL: I love what I'm hearing, because as our listeners know, we are all about analytics. And it's our bread and butter here at SAS. So on that same line of thought, Dawn, where our industry is obviously going through a lot of transition-- we have things like electric vehicles coming in, we have battery energy storage, we have all these different topics all happening in parallel, so how do you view the importance of analytics to where the energy sector goes from here in this very dynamic environment?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, well, analytics is key. So knowledge about your data and all things data. So we're talking about the quality of your data, understanding the metadata, and how it's important to support informed decisions. And everything that I've just talked about is driven on data-- data driven decisions. And it's an essential part of our ecosystem, and our ecosystem that supports this kind of open-- this idea of open science.

So looking at QAQC standards, how we're collecting our data, how we're tracking, how we're looking at data provenance. I use that word to describe what I did in my thesis. But I also think about it as a data piece is a-- it's a sand grain, right?

SAL GILL: Right.

DAWN JAMES: That has implications, right? So how we are tracking, how we're QAQC-ing our data, looking at the curation, the traceability, the documentation, these are all crucial for making sound decisions and policy. And all of these efforts rely on data.

And then we start looking at the collaboration piece among the data, how we are openly or not openly sharing our data, what the data stores look like. And that's even before I start answering your question around analytics. Having an open, transparent system where we can understand, see, visualize, and share our data is going to be paramount to being able to solve these kind of interdisciplinary across industry global societal issues.

SAL GILL: Absolutely. And that's an ongoing topic as well in the sense that we're navigating the different mindsets that exist around data sharing today. And like you said, for us to truly unleash the true potential of where we can take our world with all these different technologies, I too personally feel that this data sharing piece is going to be a critical component to better understand our customers, our environments, like you are saying, just develop a better appreciation for how these things all connect together.

So Microsoft is huge in cloud. And we're talking about different technologies here. So how do you think regulators encourage utilities in this example to explore new technologies such as the cloud?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, so I think that you can kind of look at it from different perspectives, but from a regulation standpoint heterogeneity in regulation makes it difficult for business. So we really have to look at regulation from a state and federal level in the way that policies are in line with the private sector. So when we look at technology, the use and adoption of different technologies.

And also, when we start thinking about the equitable distribution of things that these data points are talking about, when we're talking about resources, when we're talking about electricity or utilities that are meant to be a right for every person, we're looking at equitable distribution of energy, power, water.

And this isn't just an issue within the private sector, it's also a public sector issue. And then we have to look at federal policy that drives state policy. And then independent states that have policies that govern and work alongside the private sector. So it is a large issue.

But then there's also a piece of it where we have to remember that this is again, delivering a societal service. This is-- you have to remember this is about the people that receive these services. And so when we're looking at new technologies we have to think about the culture of innovation, the culture around state and federal government, and how they work in conjunction with the private sector that is moving forward. And also-- but also cannot do it alone.

We've got to look at ways that we can change individual behaviors, behavior around organizations and companies in the private sector. But then also enabling conditions that the public sector and policy can drive so that this is a long-standing, sustainable change, not something that is just a year or two years, that this is something that-- you mentioned that I'm a mom. I'm very, very invested in my children's future--

SAL GILL: Absolutely.

DAWN JAMES: --as any mother is.

SAL GILL: Happy belated Mother's Day too.

DAWN JAMES: Thank you so much. But we're looking for a long-standing change that's going to impact my grandchildren. So we want to make sure that policy, private sector, and individuals are all on the same page and in the direction that we're moving.

SAL GILL: That's very well said. And I think that's something that, in particular, one of our core markets, the utilities, is really opening up to and trying to see how they can integrate, for instance, the cloud into their environment and moving away from an environment where there was-- it was all about having on-premise control over the technology that they had. And letting go of some of that for a greater good. So very well said there.

So Dawn, growing up as a kid you, I was all surrounded around Microsoft-- totally surrounded by Microsoft from the word applications that I used in school, to learning how to type, to chatting with my cousins around the world on MSN Messenger. So what-- how-- or let me ask it this way. So why does a tech company like Microsoft care about all this happening around the energy space?

DAWN JAMES: So there's different answers to that. And I think that the simplest way that we can talk about Microsoft's business strategy when it comes to energy, and how we're approaching our policies towards sustainability, and how we're facing the market. And it's very simple, where we say that for Microsoft to do well the world needs to do well. And that is really a basic premise that Microsoft is operating off of.

That's a big reason why we show such transparency in the process that we're going through. We've made such robust goals and commitments around climate change and sustainability. And then we've also taken a lot of self-reflection and really looked at where we can improve, where we can do better. And we also look across our positions of influence. Very, very-- take a deep dive into where it is that we work across, looking at our customers, looking at how we make our investments, looking at our whole supplier portfolio, how we advocate for change. And I mentioned about policy being so important.

How Microsoft functions as an employer. We have 150,000 employees. And that is a great force for change. How we exercise within our partner network. So we look at our positions of influence, our sphere of influence, and we recognize from self-reflection, and from also understanding the scale of this problem, the issues that we face as a society, it's not a Microsoft only problem. We must expand that sphere to include everybody that we touch. Because this isn't a single individual or organization. We have to look at ways to scale.

And so we look at accelerating action beyond just the problem that we see in front of us, but thinking about how we influence the greater good. And one of the analogies that I heard a while ago that I feel that kind of resonates with me is when you think about these dating apps sometimes. And someone says on there, I'm lonely or I feel alone. And you think that you're the only person in the world that feels that way until you go to a place where you say it out loud and everyone else says the same thing-- well, I feel lonely too, I'm lonely.

And then all of a sudden everybody says, OK, well I'm having that same problem. And because you were vulnerable in the moment and you were able to say-- speak to what it is that you're going through, then you find that everybody else is actually-- it resonates. And that's really what I've been seeing since Microsoft has really made these kind of very robust goal-- announcements around our goals, is that-- I'm in our customer and partner space literally every day. And it's like Microsoft said, we feel alone. But then everybody else, all of our customers-- well, we're having that same problem too.

We're looking at being able to be a force for the greater good. How is it that you're able to see short-term losses, but then realize long-term gains? Like everybody is coming out, saying, well, Microsoft is doing it this way, let's figure out how we can do it too. Let's figure out how we can look at our sphere of influence. It's like we said we're lonely and then everybody's coming and saying they're feeling the same way.

And so it ends up having this list this flywheel or a snowball effect. And that is the power of showing your vulnerability so that you can elicit change.

SAL GILL: Absolutely. And I know one thing, that once this episode is released I think that analogy is going to be a big hit, Dawn. So we'll trade mark it to you. That's a very wise and very important element that we see as well. It's almost as if we can't be true leaders without being vulnerable ourselves. And the way you connected it with the industry in that personal sort of manner is very, very interesting and also very wise in terms of the approach that Microsoft is taking.

So moving towards Texas, and as someone who lives in Texas, you have experienced the impacts of everything, from hurricanes to ice storms. Now what kind of challenges does the industry face in terms of both physical and digital infrastructure in this era?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, so that again is a long, long answer to a short question. However--

SAL GILL: We like to ask tough questions.

DAWN JAMES: So the way I think about it is that we are talking about a systems issue. We're thinking about this in not just a physical standpoint, from a term of physical assets, but also in terms of a digital aspect-- digital infrastructure, digital assets, and the boundary conditions around both.

And so one of the things that I see is that we can't have this fixed mindset. We can't remain fixed and scaling vertically only when we're talking about an industry. We can't have a fixed mindset in digital only. We have to be able to scale both horizontally and have learnings across-- cross-industry learnings. Using something like digital, a cross-industry digital enabler. So that we can scale horizontally and then also scale vertically. We can't have this fixed mindset that it's either-or.

We have to start thinking through what it means to be a platform provider, thinking through platform style solutions, where we're not focused just on the software assets, but being able to operate that front end where we're connecting platform with platform solutions to these software assets. So that we're looking at these two systems sitting together.

We also have to change how we're thinking about business outcomes. How we're thinking-- like for the most part, we think of a winner takes all mentality in our global or cultural business mindset, where we need to think of more of an ebb and flow where we have market share dominance versus someone has complete mind share. We're talking about an ebb and flow as opposed to a winner takes all.

Because when we're in the space where I'm talking about this type of business strategy, where we are putting societal impact first, then sometimes it's about taking a loss so that you can have long-term gain. And that is part and parcel to this kind of digital or gig technology, and being able to marry these two type of systems.

Also, we have to look at how we are viewing workers. Because it's not just about-- these are all systems that work interchangeably or interconnectedly. When we think about transformation, digital transformation, there's also workforce transformation, the people that are being impacted and also the people that are working within the system to make it better. We have to change how we're thinking about the workforce.

We have the great crew change. We've been talking about it for years. I guess it's here. My Gen X self, we've been talking about it for so long. The great crew change is here. So we have to think about how we're going to be upskilling workers, how we're going to be changing. how we're coming out of school, folks that are in the mid-career, changing the flexibility-- the flexibility of this digital gig economy.

And also marrying that with that purpose-driven loyalty that we've seen. When I think of my parents, as part of the workforce they were very loyal, staying with the same company. But what I'm saying in this case is that the loyalty comes from purpose. And so the purpose of the organizations are what is going to drive loyalty from employees. Being able to move forward with empathy and confidence from an individual and from an organizational perspective.

So that we're talking about these portfolio careers, the ability to learn as opposed to the know it all versus the learn it all. Focusing on the soft skills and problem solving. So this is part of this workforce transformation and upskilling in the digital age.

And the last thing I'll say when we're talking about Texas and this change that we're undergoing is government. And the way I think about it, honestly is from the smoking, like smoking, public policy and cigarettes. So when I was a kid in high school, it was that comprehensive Smoking Education Act, where they came into the schools and they were educating us about all the woes of smoking and that sort of thing. And we all laughed. We're like, ahh, isn't that funny.

However, now, when I think about where it started from an education standpoint, it's night and day. Like it is very strange to walk into a restaurant and think that people can smoke inside of a restaurant. We have changed our behavior. We have changed our mentality. Cigarettes aren't even sold at CVS anymore. And so our-- as a culture, we have changed our mentality because of a public health crisis.

Now think about today. We are going through multiple crises that is impacting every single solitary one of us. And if you think about what it took for us to change as a culture around smoking that was a public health crisis, it's going to take the same thing around policy, pricing, and persuasion to be able to change-- to change our behavior, to change people that want to go kicking and screaming.

Because there's a price point. There's a price point to changing behavior. And that's something that only the government can do as far as policy and being able to implement these things across the board.

SAL GILL: Dawn, I'm going to ask you for those three P's again. I think that's another trademark we're getting out of this episode.

DAWN JAMES: So what I was saying was that it takes a-- from a government standpoint it takes a combination of policy, pricing, and persuasion.

SAL GILL: So policy, pricing, and persuasion, very powerful stuff there. Now, in the beginning, Dawn, you briefly talked about this equity, or this environmental equity. And some episodes back we had Dean Bill Boulding from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. And we talked about how there's a lot of discussion around the fact that, for instance, social justice, and environmental justice are not mutually exclusive.

So bringing that to our industry and this discussion with yourself, and with so much changing in both the short and long term, and several of those topics we covered today, how do we ensure that no one is actually left behind? And how can we make this energy transition and change that is happening, both from a technology perspective as well as from the policy perspective or some of the cultural perspectives that you were sharing earlier? So how can we make this energy transition happen, but happen more equitably?

DAWN JAMES: Yeah, so again, that's a difficult question in some respects. I think that in some ways it's not-- I'm not going to say that it's easy, but there's some very, very simple things. So one thing that is very simple and it doesn't take much for us as a culture, as a society to do it is just around diversity and inclusion.

And I know that DNI ends up being a little bit of a buzzword nowadays, but when you dig into what we're talking about with inclusion and uplifting the voices of the underrepresented, it's not just because it feels good. It absolutely feels good. But it's also because we think better when we think in diverse groups. Groupthink is very deadly to a society. And we're blessed with a diverse culture.

And so uplifting the voices of the underrepresented is a very simple thing, but it also, one, doesn't happen, but it's a simple thing that changes almost everything. And again, it's not just the diversity of thought and the diversity of the voices being heard, but it's also including those voices in policy-- all of the three P's in all different manners of industry and sectors. Making sure that you have-- you're not deadened by groupthink when we're trying to solve difficult issues.

Because it's not a monolith of who these things will impact. So it should not be a monolith in how we are working through the solutions. So to me, that's number one, is having this diversity of thinking that is paramount for us to embrace inclusion. And to embrace inclusion, we also have to think about what we're willing to give up.

Because we have to think of privilege. And we have to think of are we willing to give up a measure of our privilege so that voices that are not usually heard can be heard. Because that is what is going to change our thinking and also change the way that we move forward. So that's number one.

And then the way that I kind of think about this too is that it's an art form. So we're looking at staring down the barrel of a-- to me it's a Earth event or Earth ending event for our civilization and us as a human race. I mean, I really do look at it that way. And it feels almost impossible. It does.

For me, when I think about Earth systems and the drivers behind them, the planetary alignment, the sun, the ocean, these are the things that are driving-- they're monumental systems. How do I as a small individual solve these problems? How do we as a society-- they're huge, right? They're interconnected, so they seem impossible.

But it's an art form to uncover the possible when something seems impossible. And I personally consider myself an artist.

SAL GILL: Wow, OK.

DAWN JAMES: And so I look at that we need this grounded optimism that follows the science. And understanding that with what we're looking at solving, no human on this Earth isn't impacted by the water, the air, the Earth, the energy. So it's personal. It's personal for all of us.

SAL GILL: Absolutely. And I got to ask you, though, since you mentioned this artistic-ness, do you have an artistic figure that inspires you when you think about these issues?

DAWN JAMES: Oh, that's a hard one. I mean, I think of art in a lot of different ways, obviously. I definitely think of art in the fine art standpoint and then I also think of art in a thought way, in the way that people think differently. So I don't know-- I wasn't expecting this question.

But I think of musicians. I think of some of my favorite musicians, like an Andra Day or like a Tracy Chapman or something like that, from back in the day. I think of artists like that. And the idea of words, sound, and power. And how the sound of the spoken word and the music, how that resonates and influences us.

So I think of that in context of my counting sand grains for three years. And that aspect of my art and being able to share that, the way that a musician sings and you can hear their sound and it resonates with you. The work that I put in I think of the musicians that I spoke of and then being able to share their art form.

I think of it in the same way with the culmination of all the work that I've done, all the education and experience comes down to this moment in the way that I am able to express myself, and express my art form, in the form of science.

SAL GILL: Oh, that's very well said. Dawn, this has been a terrific conversation. Thank you so much for your insights, for sharing your personal aspects on a lot of these things, and most importantly your time. I've no doubt that our listeners will want to connect with you as well and learn more from you. And for that purpose, they can find you on Twitter to continue their conversation at geodawn_james. That's G-E-O-D-A-W-N underscore James.

Here's one last curveball for you. I promise this will be the last one.

DAWN JAMES: OK.

SAL GILL: We're building an electrifying AI playlist on Spotify during the season two of our episode. And you get to pick a song. And we talked about musicians a little bit, so this hopefully should be relatively straightforward. And bonus points if it includes anything related to energy.

DAWN JAMES: Well, I don't know if this is specifically energy. I think you can make some analogies or draw some connections. But I mentioned Andra Day. Andra Day is one of these musicians that has gotten me through this lockdown, gotten me through all of this time that we've all been kind of dealing with for this year and a half or so. And "Rise Up," I mean, I'm sure all the listeners have probably heard this song by Andra Day. It speaks to me. It's definitely my go-to song. So I'd love to see that on your playlist, is "Rise Up" from Andra Day.

SAL GILL: Let's make it happen then. So we'll get that in-- we will get that in our playlist. So listeners, what song would you want us to include as well? Please share your thoughts, leave your music suggestions in the comments, or tweet them to me @TheElectricSal. And we might just include your pick on our playlist and send you some cool Electrifying AI swag to say thank you.

Well, folks, that is all for this episode. We'll see you again soon. In the meantime, be safe and we'll be back. Thank you.

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